MusicTAP was fortunate to have reader Mileta Okiljevic conduct a lengthy interview with Thanatos great, Patrick Ogle. What Patrick may not know is that MusicTAP was a fan for his for many years. I even joined his weekly email tirades in the early stages of Precipice. That was way before I even dreamed of this site. Sit back, enjoy the interview. And thanks to Mileta for his efforts and to Patrick for his time.

Pat Ogle of Thanatos fame has come back. With a new name( Illegal Teenage Bikini ), new CD ( I Am Not Job), his first for his own label ( Precipice ).

I must admit that I adore Pat's work, uhm, maybe more than he does ;-) So here's where the story begins.

Q - Pat, ahoy there !! It has been a very, very long time (at least for me) since your last Thanatos CD. You've change the name of your project, changed labels, in fact, you've established your own. Reasons?

A - Thanatos started as a studio project with me and Sam Rosenthal. When the band went " live", I started working with William Tucker. When Tucker died, it was time to stop the whole Thanatos thing and move on. I never really liked the name anyway. It was actually name of a song on the first record. We didn't have an acceptable name so we picked Thanatos...It was always a little pompous for me--especially so since I am so pompous myself. I didn't actually change my label. Sam was firing all his employees so that the label can be run by him and his girlfriend (now, his wife Lisa). So I was left jobless and label-less. That's where the name comes in. I was looking for a job online and typed in " Public relations". What came up were not PR firms but porno web-sites. One of these said " illegal teenage bikini". I filed the name away.

Q - What have you been doing since you left Projekt?

A - Since leaving Projekt, I have been releasing other bands' music. I did a Claire Voyant CD, a Sunday Munich CD, two Trance To The Sun CDs, MNPLTR and a compilation..and now Illegal Teenage Bikini. I work as writer for the Miami Herald and have since 1999 in one capacity or another.

Q - If you don't mind, I'd like to return to your early works. I've always treasured them as "best kept secrets" in Projekt's productions. They remind me of black & white photos. If you look at them just briefly, you will see two colours and some object or topic there. But if you look carefully, you will see layers in them and discover whole worlds within. They are full of various ideas, both musically and lyrically with various topics. What you think about your first two albums at this distance?

A - Well, I like them but rarely ever listen to them. I became used to hearing the "live" versions of the songs, so the recorded ones sounds different to me, hollow sometimes. I think those records could have been trimmed a little. They are very long. But the thing is that it included everything because I never knew if I would do another record. I think the production on the first two are not as good as it could have been which is obviously my fault. It was the nature of how we worked. They are what they are. The songwriting is pretty solid on both. Songs like "An Embassy to Gaius", "What Happen's Next", and " Von Stauffenberg" are the best things I have ever done.

Q - I played your CDs to many people and the general feeling is that they belong more to early 80s and all that post-punk and new wave thing. One of my friends told me - "Ermm, are you sure this is not on Beggars Banquet or Situation Two?", which I find is a great compliment.

A - Well, that make sense. I was always into punk rock and I grew up in the early 80s. Most of the songs on the first Thanatos CD were written in the 80s. It was recorded in 1990-92, I think. I never was much for the LABEL "punk" or "new-wave" or any other label for that matter. That is all marketing bullshit..it means nothing. If I were on Beggars Banquet, I might have made some money out of it!! People used always to compare Thanatos to Peter Murphy -- which i could see on some songs but over all !!? Nah! Same with Death In June. With DIJ, it was the overuse of reverb on the first two records...that will make Johnny Cash sound like Death In June.

Q - We come to Blisters ;-). If you will ask me, I will admit that it is one of my favourite records from last the decade of the 20th century. It certainly offers an expanded sound & vision of Thanatos. That masterpiece sublime many influences. Many things came from such various sides that is just...brilliant!! The whole concept was great; songs became richer, and even the artwork was more colourful. I always wondered how you recorded this one. I know that Tucker was your partner then and that you also included some people from Projekt (Sam, Brother Tom from Arcanta). Are you happy with the final results? In my opinion, the production is nothing less than marvelous. I will tell you a secret- "Blisters" enjoys a cult status in my circle of friends!!!

A - That's nice to hear..you can buy copies of it for, like, 5$ ! I am very proud of that record. We recorded most of it at Tucker's apartment which was mouse infested. Luckily there was a liquor store nearby. We would take a breaks and watch old James Brown and Parliaments videos. That CD is a tribute to Tucker's anal compulsiveness and his work ethic. A lot of people who knew him, but didn't know anything about him and his music would been surprised at how hard and constantly he worked on music. He also spent three days mastering it in a secret big expensive studio that let him in for free. I think that it is, far and away, the best record I have ever done, including the new "illegalteenagebikini" CD. I think the "illegalteenagebikini" release is number 2!

Q - What was the line up for gigs? You often mentioned a live album. Does it exist and, if so, when will it appear? Will it be a collection of recording throughout the years or from one stage of your work?

A - Yeah I often mentioned that but I cannot get myself to listen all the shitty recordings. A good deal of the live recordings-- and there are like dozen of them-- are awful sound-wise. They are on one channel. You can only hear the bass. Some are good, but not too many. I figure that if I cannot stand to listen to them, who else would want to hear them? We have a passible recording of the last show we ever did but I don't know who would want to hear even that? The thing is that I can't imagine who'd buy it so why make it? I thought about doing a limited release of it and giving them out to anyone who'd ordered a Thanatos CD from Projekt or something like that. I may still but who knows.. I have other shit to worry about. Like the next "illegalteenagebikini" release. The line up was Me, Tucker, Eric Polcyn on bass and a number of drummers. The first two tours we had no drummer. For the Projekt Festival, we added one - Sam Fogarino , who is now drummer for a band called Interpol, and then Vince Gretch, who is an artist in Chicago these days.

Q- I like the artwork for your releases. I notice that some of them were made from your Dad. Is he a painter or...

A - Excluding the first Thanatos CD, all the cover art are paintings from my father. He has been a painter for many years. I think a lot of his other paintings are far better then the cover paintings. He does a lot of landscapes and paintings of the small town outside Pittsburgh where he grew up. It is called Pitcairn.

Q - What you think of rock stars topic! Another slight return. When you mentioned a few lines above, Peter Murphy and Johnny Cash, Nick Cave automatically comes to mind. I adore him but I must admit, like you or not, I always thought about you in same league with him. From my own reasonings. Funny thing is that exactly at the same time I heard "I Am Not Job" and his (Cave) new and last one (Nocturama), I found that "Ilegalteenagebikini" is very inspiring and for one who struggles. At the same time, sadly, I find that Nick's new one is played very safe. But with all his propaganda pamphlets, he even attracted a new audience and your work stayed for that of a limited audience.

A - I haven't actually heard that CD. I loved " No More Shall We Part" though. That is brilliant. I confess to being relatively new Nick Cave convert. I like "The Birthday Party" but was not keen on some of his solo stuff BUT it turns out I had just heard some of his weakest efforts. Far be it from me to rag on him!! "Boatman's Call", "Henry's Dream"...awesome stuff. I think he is a great talent. His article on Jesus was amazing!!! I suspect however, you sensing more "struggling" in what I do is because I am always struggling. It is a brutal strain for me to finish anything or even have time to work on anything. So the sense of struggle in what I do is real!! Although I am very rarely writing anything personal these days. Not too many love songs springing to my mind!

Q - I always thought about You or Lycia as the ones whose potential wasn't "exploited" in the best possible ways. Also, you mentioned Sam, that drummer out of Interpol. They are huge these days. I like them very much. What do you think, honestly, about it?

A - I haven't talked to Sam Fogarino of Interpol in years but I am thrilled for him. I did try to call him to tell him the record is great but he 's on the road. He is great guy and a talented drummer. As far as me? Well, I've never really connected with anyone. My discs didn't blast off and sell. Why? Probably a lot of reasons. Small niche label that I really didn't fit into, limited promotion, but most important is that it really didn't grab a large number of people . It is sort of morose, downbeat stuff. Sam Rosenthal thinks it is because we didn't link Thanatos closely enough to him. Do I wish I became a rock star? Nope..it would be a disaster. If I had sold 10 times what I did I would have TRIED to make a living doing it and that STILL isn't enough money. Then I would have wound up trying to make music that would sell..and that would be awful. I am happy being a broke writer who does music.

Q - How do you feel in the role as one to publish some other people's work? What is your criteria for choosing artists? They are not so strongly connected with similar sounding types of bands. Do you allow them complete freedom...?

A - Complete and utter freedom! If you ask me, I might make a suggestion but usually they don't ask. The criterion is that I like the music and that they have no options for putting it out...I am NOT a rocket to the stars...I release a CD and then its largely up to the artists to make it for themselves. It is all up to the band after that. I do some promotion but not a lot...and my distribution sucks too.

Q- Just before we get onto new illegalteenagebikini topic, what are the plans for Precipice in the future? Will you release that Ashkelon solo album? Does all the efforts apart from your won satisfaction worth it economically?

A - It is a disaster economically. I have made very little money and the moment I make any, it's immediately spent or eaten by taxes. I have no specific plans other than to continue to try to put out some more music. As far as Ashkelon, I will put out whatever he wants do to --within reasons. He is very prolific!! I can't release 5 CDs a year! I don't get much new music sent to me and if I heard a band that I really liked, I would probably work with them. I have a guy, Jason Donelly (DJ Puzzle) who I am allegedly putting out a CD for soon. More dance oriented but I have been talking to Jason for years and it never seems to happen!

Q - Well, we come to "I Am Not Job", a brilliant title. It's great title...great play on words. For certain, your imagination and specific way of expressing things hasn't left you! That reminds me off the famous Crass motto (fight war, not wars) which I

have adopted. Am i right..or wrong!?

A - WELL..I am not exactly a pacifist. I believe that things are complicated and I usually don't try to preach but illustrate some things that disturb me..and hopefully disturb others too. Either that or I'm making fun of it. Nothing strikes me funnier than people out protesting the WTO who don't really knows what the what the WTO is or what it does! I think people are often ignorant and that isn't limited to the middle class. People like to whine. But offering real solutions is a bit tougher than painting "Down with the IMF" on a bedsheet. Don't get me wrong. I think these international economic organizations are fucked. I just also think the protesters are fucked too. I also love when people decide, for instance, "I HATE America" and they go smash a McDonalds that is locally owned and employs local people . It reminds me of The Dead Kennedys' line " trash a bank if you've got a real balls"...but banks are well protected, aren't they? Forgive me, I ramble.

Q - I always find a sparkle of struggling in your words and music. No matter how bleak and grey they can seem at first listen.

A - I am not actually a depressed person. I am cynical and sarcastic but most often i am joking and trying to irritate people. Personality wise, I'd fit more with Chumbawamba than Crass. Perhaps I exorcise the darkness in me by putting out music that's pretty deep huh?

Q - Musically, "I Am Not A Job" is your most subversive record.

A - I like the word "subversive"..I've always felt it was trying to inject some political thoughts into a genre( goth?) that lacked it. Many bands have never had lyrics like " Oh..my vampire fangs are sharp..I'll sink them into your heart".. or shit like that. Contrast that sort of poop with "Splinters", which was inspired by the break-up of Yugoslavia. I am not saying my lyrics are so great but they most assuredly are not about fucking vampires. The problem was that..well.. I wasn't really all that goth and no one liked the band!! So no one listened.

Q- Also, from trip-hop, tribal, electronic to country and old influences? Ha, imagine what dizzyness and what people will have in their head when they will have heard all that, BUT it works PERFECTLY and in some specific way follows the line you trace on Blisters.

A - It does follow Blisters in spirit but it is a different,less polished, less precise... I hate precision. Probably because it always eludes me. It didn't, however ,elude Tucker. I still like Blisters better than this one but this one is more "me".

Q - I notice that you benefit from the help from people who are signed to your label. How much has that influenced, and maybe changed this release from your initial ideas?

A - Well, Greg Lucas from MNPLTR was instrumental in making i"llegalteenagebikini" happen. Without him the CD would simply not exist. Avis of SUNDAY MUNICH and DJ PUZZLE also were a big part of it. I didn't do it and cannot do it alone. I am the WORST person ever to engineer a record. You might as well let a monkey do it. So these people influenced things a lot. Did they influence the content? The song writing? Not really!!! Most of that was done. But a song can be written and without good production it turns to shit pretty fast. I owe them all a good deal!

Q - Will you be showcasing this music with some gig(s)?

A - I have no plans to do any shows . That would require me to get a band together and that is not happening any time soon. Maybe after the next record. It is always a possibility that I might do acoustic shows.. just me and a guitar, here and there, but I am not really LOOKING to do that. If anyone offers and I have the time, I probably would do it. I'd really like to do some acoustic stuff in Europe.

Q - What were you listening to while making "I Am Not Job"?

A - I don't remember what I was listening to then...probably Tricky or Brian Eno or something. Recently? I just bought a Grandmaster Flash compilation because I wanted a copy of "The Message" so I have been listening to that. The new Johnny Cash,

" The Man Comes Around". This morning I also busted out the Leonard Cohen disc"10 New Songs"...hmmm, what else? I have listened to the Interpol CD to DEATH !! It was the only CD in my car for a month. Oh, and how could i forget!!? The new Claire Voyant is amazing. That's the other one I listened to for a week straight. I also have been off and on, listening to David Bowie's "Heathen"...great stuff.

Q - Are you familiar with bands like Godspeed? You Black Emperor, Sigur Ros, or Mogwai?

A - Familiar? A little. Not sure about Sigur Ros but I have Godspeed. You Black Emperor CD. Someone gave it to me. Haven't listened to it much.

Q - Last year you told me that you are hooked on the Tindersticks sound. Now I hear that you like Nick Cave. Do you still like and have ideas to work some songs with real strings? If you ask me, I think that some of your songs will explode if you will treat them like that.

A - Not really. I don't know anyone who can play that sort of thing and its not really how my musical mind works. Lots of people "play" bowed instruments but few play them well. I was thinking of trying to get some saxophones and horns of various types involved. But again, I simply don't know the musicians who can play horns and whatnot. I am also thinking of using more noise and loops and multitrack dissonance.

Q - I always wonder how you choose artists and their songs to cover? Does it came purely by incident or how? I always find that somehow they are connected with zeitgeist. Don't fear the reaper, Cop Killer, Spanish bombs...now Billy Bragg's "Between The Wars". It's brilliant..I like Billy's work. It is the last thing on the CD that sounds almost like a statement.

A - Well, Cop Killer was because I was pissed at how they jumped all over Ice T for writing a song about killing a cop. But don't say shit about Bruce Springsteen. Ever look at Johnny Cash's catalogue ? How many people is killed there? They are SONGS. As far as Billy Bragg, I would say he is great. I flew to Chicago to see him on his last tour. I even went up to the stage afterwards to shake his hand. Anyone who knows me would be pretty surprised at my acting like a fan! In general, I pick a song I like or one I think I> can do well. The next CD will have the traditional Irish song " Carrickfergus", as well as probably one other song. I am leaning toward " Straight to Hell" by the Clash (Editor's Note: I would LOVE to hear that!!). I was very upset about Joe Strummer . He was the sound track of my teenage years. One of the ones who really mattered.

Q - Huh, once more you mention Johhny Cash, then murder songs. Nick Cave again comes to my mind. Did you think about making a collection of cover songs on an album or EP? Some The Fall or Nick Cave's songs almost "Cried" to be touched with your hands..

A - I have always wanted to do a CD of all my favourite songs by other people. I doubt that I ever will though. In many cases, I doubt I could do them justice considering the primitive nature of how I usually record. I wanted to do a cover of "Straight To You" off of Henry's Dream. But you know, I don't think I could pull it off.

Q - BTW, in the "I Am Not Job" artwork notes, you announced a new one, (The Exterminating Angel) and told here about Carrickfergus..did you have more material?

A - I have three songs recorded. I did them with Ashkelon from Trance To The Sun, when he lived in Santa Barbara. Real good stuff. Most of the rest of it's written now. I just need to record it and figure out where I am going to record it.

Q - Will you change something on your musical course for the next one apart from "Blisters" and "I Am Not Job"? Did Ashkelon's presence change something?

A - It certainly makes a big difference. He is an excellent musician and has a good ear. He really arranged Carrickfergus which I had a really hard time with on my own. He did what Tucker used to do--took my ideas and helped to fully realized them. I am very happy with the stuff we did..but no one else will be hearing it for a long time!!

Q- From what sources can people buy your CDs?

A - Mostly online from www.projekt.com or www.wtiirecords.com. Metropolis distribution has some and I know that wtII has sold some to stores but I have no idea which stores. You won't find them in any big chains.

Q - Did you have contact with Projekt and people from bands when you was around? Recently I spoke with David Galas (ex-Lycia) and he is at the stage of making a record. He didn't hear from you for years, but told me some funny stories from tours..like calling Sam Rosenthal at strange times in the night.

A - Yeah well..I am not sure which late night calls to Sam he is talking about. There were a couple...one was from The Pennsylvania Turnpike at about 4AM. I remember Sam saying "that's nice, Pat..I am hanging up now". I haven't seen Dave for 8 years. Other Projekt folks? Tom from Arcanta I have seen. Probably a year and a half ago in Chicago. I stay in touch with Suzanne Perry (ex) from Love Spirals Downwards. I saw her a couple a years ago and we chat now and again. She is working with a new band now. I saw Ryan out of LSD back in 1999 when I was in LA selling t-shirts on Ween tour. I used to see Johnny Indovina from Human Drama. The last time was here in Miami in...I think 1999!

Q - You told me that you had been working at the Miami Herald. If it is not a secret, what is it that you write for the paper?

A - I write for business section. I help people who have been ripped off. I also write travel articles now and again and do humour for a weekly magazine the Herald owns called Street. I had a humor column for them for a year and a half but that ended in the Spring of 2000. Now, I do a little humor on a weekly basis.

Q - Did you ever thinking about putting some things on paper and making a book?

A - Hey, if someone wants to pay me for a book of those 70 columns and other writings that I own, I am all for it. But I am not holding my breath.

Q - Well, until next time..( i hope ), is there any link to your writings and articles on the web. I would be happy to be able to read some of them.

A - Most of my articles have no by-line but they are on Miami Herald Action Line. You may be able to find other articles -- travel ones, for instance, at www.herald.com. I wrote one recently on Cancun and am working on one on Nicaragua. I also write humor stuff for Street which is www.streetmiami.com. They do not have an archive, but you can only read current stuff ( small humor pieces).

Q - I think even if you have "just" 5 releases you are a very fertile person in many ways.

A - I don't work very fast.. I COULD but I have so many things that I'm doing. I am also not in any hurry. I'm not trying to build a fan base or anything. I just want to keep putting out music, for a little while more anyway.

Q - Uh, i almost forgot to ask you about videos, you have some...btw, are you interested in cinema? Do you have some favourite directors or movies?

A- I did some videos for the "Embassy Of Gaius" CD. I am lukewarm about music videos. Movies, on the other hand, I love. I used to be more into movies than I am now. Partly because I think world cinema is weaker than it once was. But, you don't want to get me talking about movies...!!!!!! I will go on and on... I love Charlie Chaplin, I love Bunuel and Bergman. I could watch " La Dolce Vita" every night. I also like spooky movies and comedy and war movies.

Q- Yeah, you're right!! Bunuel!! Now, I must stop...this interview would go on forever. Bunuel. I notice that apart from many musicians you are very well informed and updated. Also, your music and words express incredible background. Just one question more...What kind of books do you like, and writers...?

A - I try to keep on things! My favourite writers are Martin Amis , Graham Greene, Harry Crews, William Faulkner. I also read lots of history. John Keegan is a great writer for history of the warfare and the like. I am always reading something.

Q- Is there anything you want to tell people who will read this ? We must finish at this point, unfortunately.

A - Let me know what you think of the music. I am always happy to hear from people. They can email.

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